Light, slack hardtail that doesn't cost the earth? (2024)

tenacious_doug

Still on the hunt for a new bike for the boy, since HUP have discontinued the Enduro frame I’m not sure what to go for.

He’s 10, races a lot of XC and is reasonably good, wants to start doing more enduro racing and spends a lot of time at the local jump spot, and will ride a reasonable level of off piste stuff, we did Laggan Brown last week.

I want one bike to do everything since he’s still young and growing fast. Happy to do frame only and build up, or full bike and replace forks and wheels, which always seem pretty crappy on mid range hardtails IMO.

Reasonably long & slack for gnar (most “modern XC” frames seem to be 67 HA which I think is too steep).
Reasonably light and climb well for XC racing/not too much for smaller rider (2kg or thereabouts frame weight would be ideal).
Not overly expensive (£400 frame only or £1,500 absolute max full bike).

I appreciate I’m wanting moon on a stick somewhat but they do exist. I reckon a 2nd hand Transition Vanquish or HUP Enduro frame would be ideal, but hard to get hold of. Kinesis FF29 look very interesting but a bit pricy (he’s too tall for the ones on offer from Merlin right now).

honourablegeorge

65 HA on this, it’s bike-components’ own brand frame

https://www.bike-components.de/en/bc-original/Podsol-29-Hardtail-Frame-p76824/?v=79781-grey-beige

Nordest Bardino on sale, for something longer travel

BARDINO 3 FRAME

tenacious_doug

desperatebicycle

In the “recommend what you have” style – Commencal Meta HT?

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/field-test-commencal-meta-ht-am-origin-2022-review.html

Couldn’t post my pic for some reason, so there’s a PB review. Mine looks nicer, has Fox 36s and is a nice shade of puce.

rootes1

Bird Zero29? £410. Light frame – not sure your size need – woudl a medium work?

https://www.bird.bike/product/zero-29-frameset/#please-choose-your-frame-size-and-colour

I have one and is a versatile frame for different uses depending on how it is built up

Kibster

tenacious_doug

On One Scandal, full bike and modify from there. Around 65.5deg head angle.

I had looked at it and discounted, reviews suggest high front end and harsh rear end. For a small light rider this is not a great setup.

Bird Zero29? £410. Light frame – not sure your size need – woudl a medium work?

Interesting shout, I’d discounted it as I thought it was weighter than it is but looks ok actually, so may well be an option.

chakaping

Age 10, wanting to do a bit of XC and enduro-y stuff?

I guess you’d want an XS or S size aluminum hardtail frame, with 27.5 wheels?

Nukeproof Scout, Orange Crush etc.

Secondhand full bike probably best value.

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR

tenacious_doug

Age 10, wanting to do a bit of XC and enduro-y stuff?

I guess you’d want an XS or S size aluminum hardtail frame, with 27.5 wheels?

I think he’s probably ready to make the jump to 29, to remain competitive in XC he’s probably going to have to. I’d been pretty adamant on staying on 27.5 for the next one but seeing what the others are on at races it’s probably time to move. He’s very tall for his age and is allowed to occasionally borrow his mum’s full sus for any more technical enduros he racws, so I think the bigger wheels will be fine.

Scout and Orange are too portly to be competitive in XC I think.

chestrockwell

Scout and Orange are too portly to be competitive in XC I think.

That’s your problem though, isn’t it? Any similar priced frame to these will be a similar weight unless it’s a proper XC bike, which won’t like jump spots or off piste.

I came to say Orange Crush or Clockwork Evo as there’s still some decent deals about but it sounds more like you need to build a race bike then pick up a cheap second hand tough bike for bashing?

tenacious_doug

That’s your problem though, isn’t it? Any similar priced frame to these will be a similar weight unless it’s a proper XC bike, which won’t like jump spots or off piste.

Maybe, that’s why I came here to ask. All 3 frames mentioned in my initial post tick the boxes. The Bird & Podsol do too so I’ve already doubled my range of options from the feedback here 🙂

Scout is a good half kg heavier than any of the above I believe so is definitely out.

seriousrikk

Want something that can do both XC and moderate gnar…. I’d probably be looking at the Ragley Marley 27.5.

If it weren’t for the fact it’s too big, I’d offer you my chiggle bargain frame at a similarly bargain price.

chakaping

Stevet1

Northwind

On One Scandal? Only in stock in S and XL, but £199, and claims 2kg.

Heh. The titanium On One Wrekker- same frame as my Titus Loco Moto- is down to £500. It’s an outright enduro hardtail but it’s still light and pedals well. Ridiculous things but I love mine.

a11y

Often find someone selling an Mmbop on the Ragley FB page

There’s also the Marley – my 11yr old / 159cm is enjoying hers. Great geometry and not a bad weight. 65.5deg HA with a 130mm fork.

tenacious_doug

If he fits the bird 29, that would be a great option

Definitely the front runner so far, and raw finish shaves off a bit extra weight. Perhaps a bit slack for climbing but nothing a reverse angleset wouldn’t fix. He should fit onto the medium by end summer I reckon.

On One Scandal? Only in stock in S and XL, but £199, and claims 2kg.

Yeah, as above, I thought it looked good on paper but high front end and rigid back end is mentioned in a few reviews, which is not a great combination for a smaller, lighter rider. Slammed front end and something more compliant is better.

Kramer

There’s also the Marley

Came here to say that. Still loving mine.

iffoverload

Another vote for the Marley here. Tough reasonably light and utterly capable of XC and steep n techy.

Marley 2.0 Hardtail Bike 2021

dave_h

tenacious_doug

Kramer

dave_h

brutaldeluxe09

pimpingimp

As someone who like the more aggressive/enduro’y side of things, and historically a dirt jumper I wouldn’t recommend the scandal – I had a big dog and thought it was ok as an mtb, not a good at the fun stuff.

I ran a Dartmoor primal a few years back, light, solid and stiff, great fun – not too slack, not too long but a whole bunch of fun in both 27.5 and 29” setup (I rode both) and infinitely better than the on-one.

iffoverload

tenacious_dougFree Member
Is Marley frame not a bit portly? Anyone got the weight? I seem to have around 2.3kg in my mind.

For a young gun I’d go for light wheels and tyres which make a bigger difference in ride feel than a few hundred grams on the frame, stick a water bottle on anything and you loose all you gain…or gain all you loose.

*confundled emoji*

didnthurt

When I was looking for a similar frame for my son, I found plenty of small 29er frames but not many 27.5. So I ended up buying a Trek Marlin 8 Gen 3. The geometry is pretty slack and the frame is okay weight wise.

Edit:- 66.5 head angle slack enough?

https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/bikes/mountain-bikes/cross-country-mountain-bikes/marlin/marlin-8-gen-3/p/36969/

didnthurt

tenacious_doug

Is 2.3kg heavy? I wouldn’t have said so, particularly for a hardcore hardtail.

Not for a hardcore hardtail for an adult, but that’s not what I’m looking for.

superstu

jonzi

I happen to have an Identi AKA for sale, very nice bits on it, if you look on the other bike website, the one with a colour in the name, you might find the advert.

I liked the bike, very nimble and playful, but I don’t use it enough to warrant keeping it.

submarined

Am I the only one thinking that a 10yo on a 29er is a bit big, and that might be why you can’t find one? Lots of full adult bikes have the small sizes in 27.5 still.

My 11yo isn’t that lanky at about 145cm, but he’s on an xs 10 year old Giant 26″ FS and I’d say he’s only just comfy on it.

Another point I’d make is that unless he’s an absolute animal, I think the suggestions of a light xc frame and angle set are on point. At that age the light weight means the forces are a lot less on the frame, so you don’t need something built for max strength imo. There aren’t a lot of light xc frames with aggro geo because focusing on both seems mutually exclusive I’d have thought?

I’m going to stick my neck out and possibly be an arse here, but it’s there perhaps a bit of vicarious buying going on? When I picked my son’s bike up for him I was worried that the steep head angle might be a bit twitchy for him, and started trying to work out what angle set I could fit. But after watching him ride it for down some rooty trails, and watching him 6 months later clear the local tables, I’m now at peace with the fact that kids will just ride the crap out of whatever they’re given, until someone(in our case , me, The Internet, or Friends)tells them they need a better thing. 😀

pigyn

tenacious_doug

Am I the only one thinking that a 10yo on a 29er is a bit big, and that might be why you can’t find one?

Well no, I thought that but he’s actually beyond the 27.5″ size in most options that have wheel specific sizing (Trek Marlin etc.), he’s got nearly 15cm on your kid despite being a year younger, and has comfortably been on 27.5 for 2 years now, I’m also looking for something later in the summer when he’ll be 5+cm taller but if I need to watch for 2nd hand then I need to be looking now. Though if he wasn’t racing XC I’d be looking at 27.5 no question.

As for angles, it’s not vicarious it’s mainly sticking with what he’s got, which is a slack, aggressive, light HUP Enduro which is unfortunately discontinued so I’m trying to find nearest equivalent.

tenacious_doug

The base spec (new) Orbea Laufey with a light set of wheels chucked on?

No Downshift deal?!

Know any customers trying to shift and old smaller Vanquish?

stevenmenmuir

chakaping

Definitely the front runner so far, and raw finish shaves off a bit extra weight. Perhaps a bit slack for climbing but nothing a reverse angleset wouldn’t fix.

I’d definitely try as stock first.

My pal has one and races XC on it, it’s definitely within the “can’t blame the bike” envelope IYKWIM.

He’s also dropped me on DH tracks on it (albeit his local).

matt_outandabout

tenacious_doug

+1 on wheels and tyres being more important than a couple of hundred grammes in a frame.
Same with fork – a better functioning for a light rider over saving a few grammes.

100%, but if options exist (which it seems they do) there’s no real reason to pick something half a kg heavier if spec/angles/price are otherwise similar.